To understand the origin and essence of the concept "visual poetry",
we use the interview given by the poet Antônio Luiz Mário Andrade -
ALMANDRADE - to the reporter Rodrigo de Souza Leão. ALMANDRADE is the
owner of a style in which minimalism is the guide of his aesthetics,
and he works on the poem like someone who lapidates a diamond. He is
one of the creators of the Group of Language Studies in Bahia which
edited the magazine Semiótica in 1974. He answers to the questions
with the knowledge of a true master and seems to be vexed by the
negligence to the work of the artist in a society dominated by the
media culture, by fashion, by what is easy and disposable.
Reporter - Why is the short poem the paradigm of the present Brazilian poetry?
ALMANDRADE - I do not have enough information to affirm that the short
poem is the paradigm of the present poetry. In my case, art and poetry
made me use a repertoire with few verbal or pictorial signs as working
tools. I have as references: the poetic vanguard, the constructivism
and the conceptual art. Later I got closer to the conferences made by
Italo Calvino, that were mainly about lightness "lost
monuments/paintings on the walls of museums/modern caves".
Reporter - What is there in common between lost monuments and
paintings on cave walls? "Everything passes, but time"? "Circles
hooked on circles"? "Continuous return"?
ALMANDRADE - Poetry is making with the language, an exercise that
takes language to a limit, destroys the daily meanings. "...go as far
as possible, and not get there" (Bataille). In my poetry there are
images, sometimes absurd, contradictory, strange relationships... only
possible in the poetic language. The poet is free to transform the
order and the meaning of things. But we can get closer to the logic of
the daily routine, a problem for the readers to solve, they are
accomplices of the meanings of a poetic work. As Borges says: /" The
one who reads my words is inventing them"/. - For example: the caves
and their visual inscriptions are the museums of primitive men. The
modern men stores their visual images (artistic) in museums (modern
caves). / "everything is intimate/ in the disorder/ of the suffering/
Reporter - Don't you believe in colective suffering? When can
suffering be to organize?
ALMANDRADE - The previous answer could also be an answer to this
question. The poetic language is not a 'spokesperson' for suffering,
pain or laughter, these are present in poetry, but as symbolic
elements, they are part of human nature, and men project their
feelings, their affliction and their happiness on what they read or
see: "reason/is a thought/with no way out"/
Reporter - What are the exits beyond Cartesian?
ALMANDRADE - This might be a provocation. I don't know if there are
exits, besides laughter. / " The limits of my language are the limits
of my world"/, (Wittgenstein). Poetry is a form of thought that does
not answer, but questions the thought. And reason / "...is only the
imperfection of inteligence"/, as São Tomás de Aquino says.
Reporter - You were one of the creators of the Group of Language
Studies in Bahia which edited the magazine called Semiotica in 1974.
What are the paths that internet opens for the study of semiotics?
ALMANDRADE - We are dazzled by internet, as if it were going to solve
anything or make men more intelligent. The truth is that it is only a
means that may be at service of any subject area: making contact is
easier, (this interview, for example) exchanging information is
easier, it can make researches and works public, but it will not
produce them.
Reporter - When can an object be a poem? When can a single word be a
poem? What are the limits of concrete poetry and visual poetry?
ALMANDRADE - Poetry, for being different from prose in its written
form, has always been a visual statement. Concrete poetry is the
acknowledgement and affirmation of poetry also as visual art, that the
poem-process assumed in its radicalism, in my opinion, provoking a
rupture between poem and literature. When I make a visual poem, I feel
like I am graphic art talking to literature. One object or one word
assumes the poetic form when it is taken, inserted or moved to the
poetic context, when it transforms certain emotions we have into
poetry. It reminds me of Valery.
Reporter - What did Bahia have that it does not have anymore? Since
Caetano and Gil appeared, we have not seen an artist like them coming
from Bahia. Is it a Bahia crisis or is it a Brazilian one?
ALMANDRADE - It seems to me to be an international problem. In the
case of Baiana music (or maybe, Brazilian music), its market has
grown, but its quality has not improved. We are part of a civilization
that has shopping as an ethic principle. Nowadays, to think is to be
old-fashioned. When quantity becomes more important than quality,
there is something wrong!... or is it thinking that is wrong?...
Walter Benjamim named cinema as the greatest art.
Reporter - Is there one art bigger than the other?
ALMANDRADE - It is necessary to reflect about Benjamin's statement in
relation to the place and time it was conceived. (at the zenith of
industrial revolution). There is not one art bigger than the other.
The different things known by a society do not come in pairs, and are
more important within their own specificities.
Reporter - What is the role of the writer in the society?
ALMANDRADE - The role of the writer is to write, to produce knowledge
and to question its nature, to invent other relations with the world.
But in a society dominated by the media culture, by fashion, by what
is easy and disposable, and that despises reflection, the writer, the
poet and the artist are useless characters who spend their time
recovering a kind of poetry and a form of knowledge that have been
lost or disdained. By doing that, writers, poets and artists can help
men save their memories.
English Version: Rosa Campos
we use the interview given by the poet Antônio Luiz Mário Andrade -
ALMANDRADE - to the reporter Rodrigo de Souza Leão. ALMANDRADE is the
owner of a style in which minimalism is the guide of his aesthetics,
and he works on the poem like someone who lapidates a diamond. He is
one of the creators of the Group of Language Studies in Bahia which
edited the magazine Semiótica in 1974. He answers to the questions
with the knowledge of a true master and seems to be vexed by the
negligence to the work of the artist in a society dominated by the
media culture, by fashion, by what is easy and disposable.
Reporter - Why is the short poem the paradigm of the present Brazilian poetry?
ALMANDRADE - I do not have enough information to affirm that the short
poem is the paradigm of the present poetry. In my case, art and poetry
made me use a repertoire with few verbal or pictorial signs as working
tools. I have as references: the poetic vanguard, the constructivism
and the conceptual art. Later I got closer to the conferences made by
Italo Calvino, that were mainly about lightness "lost
monuments/paintings on the walls of museums/modern caves".
Reporter - What is there in common between lost monuments and
paintings on cave walls? "Everything passes, but time"? "Circles
hooked on circles"? "Continuous return"?
ALMANDRADE - Poetry is making with the language, an exercise that
takes language to a limit, destroys the daily meanings. "...go as far
as possible, and not get there" (Bataille). In my poetry there are
images, sometimes absurd, contradictory, strange relationships... only
possible in the poetic language. The poet is free to transform the
order and the meaning of things. But we can get closer to the logic of
the daily routine, a problem for the readers to solve, they are
accomplices of the meanings of a poetic work. As Borges says: /" The
one who reads my words is inventing them"/. - For example: the caves
and their visual inscriptions are the museums of primitive men. The
modern men stores their visual images (artistic) in museums (modern
caves). / "everything is intimate/ in the disorder/ of the suffering/
Reporter - Don't you believe in colective suffering? When can
suffering be to organize?
ALMANDRADE - The previous answer could also be an answer to this
question. The poetic language is not a 'spokesperson' for suffering,
pain or laughter, these are present in poetry, but as symbolic
elements, they are part of human nature, and men project their
feelings, their affliction and their happiness on what they read or
see: "reason/is a thought/with no way out"/
Reporter - What are the exits beyond Cartesian?
ALMANDRADE - This might be a provocation. I don't know if there are
exits, besides laughter. / " The limits of my language are the limits
of my world"/, (Wittgenstein). Poetry is a form of thought that does
not answer, but questions the thought. And reason / "...is only the
imperfection of inteligence"/, as São Tomás de Aquino says.
Reporter - You were one of the creators of the Group of Language
Studies in Bahia which edited the magazine called Semiotica in 1974.
What are the paths that internet opens for the study of semiotics?
ALMANDRADE - We are dazzled by internet, as if it were going to solve
anything or make men more intelligent. The truth is that it is only a
means that may be at service of any subject area: making contact is
easier, (this interview, for example) exchanging information is
easier, it can make researches and works public, but it will not
produce them.
Reporter - When can an object be a poem? When can a single word be a
poem? What are the limits of concrete poetry and visual poetry?
ALMANDRADE - Poetry, for being different from prose in its written
form, has always been a visual statement. Concrete poetry is the
acknowledgement and affirmation of poetry also as visual art, that the
poem-process assumed in its radicalism, in my opinion, provoking a
rupture between poem and literature. When I make a visual poem, I feel
like I am graphic art talking to literature. One object or one word
assumes the poetic form when it is taken, inserted or moved to the
poetic context, when it transforms certain emotions we have into
poetry. It reminds me of Valery.
Reporter - What did Bahia have that it does not have anymore? Since
Caetano and Gil appeared, we have not seen an artist like them coming
from Bahia. Is it a Bahia crisis or is it a Brazilian one?
ALMANDRADE - It seems to me to be an international problem. In the
case of Baiana music (or maybe, Brazilian music), its market has
grown, but its quality has not improved. We are part of a civilization
that has shopping as an ethic principle. Nowadays, to think is to be
old-fashioned. When quantity becomes more important than quality,
there is something wrong!... or is it thinking that is wrong?...
Walter Benjamim named cinema as the greatest art.
Reporter - Is there one art bigger than the other?
ALMANDRADE - It is necessary to reflect about Benjamin's statement in
relation to the place and time it was conceived. (at the zenith of
industrial revolution). There is not one art bigger than the other.
The different things known by a society do not come in pairs, and are
more important within their own specificities.
Reporter - What is the role of the writer in the society?
ALMANDRADE - The role of the writer is to write, to produce knowledge
and to question its nature, to invent other relations with the world.
But in a society dominated by the media culture, by fashion, by what
is easy and disposable, and that despises reflection, the writer, the
poet and the artist are useless characters who spend their time
recovering a kind of poetry and a form of knowledge that have been
lost or disdained. By doing that, writers, poets and artists can help
men save their memories.
English Version: Rosa Campos
(kindness of Souza News)
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